(no subject)

[xtremeroswellia]

Today a judge declared that the partial-birth abortion ban in the United States is unjust. This is likely to be a long meandering thought process, so I've cut for those who don't care, or don't want to hear my opinion. :)



I've been a believer in the pro-choice movement for as long as I can remember, and in my experience people are either VERY pro-choice or VERY anti-choice. I won't call it "pro-life" because that makes pro-choice seem like we're pro-death and that's not true. I would NEVER tell any woman that she should have an abortion. I'm happy for people when they find out they're pregnant and are genuinely glad about it.

My best friend recently had a miscarriage and she wanted that baby so badly I was afraid she might hurt herself. I certainly didn't want her to have an abortion.

But there's a HUGE difference between being pregnant and wanting to be pregnant, and being pregnant and hating it.

Let's look at some facts.

A. Not everyone wants children. Anti-choicers will argue then that women shouldn't have sex, or have non-safe sex. Agreed on the second part. But crap happens. Condoms break, pills don't always work, etc. So if the birth control methods fail, we should force the woman to have a child she doesn't want?

Well, she could give the baby up for adoption right?

Sure. But do you know how many children in the U.S. are waiting to be adopted already? Millions. So okay, she keeps the baby. And then beats the kid and tells him/her that she wishes he/she had never been born. Or worse yet, shakes it to death when it won't stop crying at 2 a.m., or drives it into a lake and claims insanity when the baby drowns.

B. Let's talk about a "baby" that's created from incest or rape. I don't know too many women who would honestly want to carry a child to term that results from a hideous act of violence. I certainly wouldn't. See above for reasons against adoption/keeping the child.

C. Something wrong with the fetus. I also don't know that I would want to bring a child into the world knowing that it had something fatally wrong with it, or even a very serious health condition such as Down's Syndrome. You have to look at quality of life in these cases, too.

D. The mother's life is in danger if she carries the baby to delivery. This is a very personal issue, as well. Some women would be more than willing to take the risk in order to have a baby. Why should others, however, who don't want children for whatever reason, put their life in jeopardy for a child she didn't want to begin with?

That being said, my personal belief is that abortion should be a choice as long as the fetus/child is unable to live on its own outside of the mother's womb. To me, if it can't breathe, eat, drink, etc, without her, and she doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't have to.

However. I'm against partial birth abortions. Maybe someone can change my mind on this, but I doubt it. There are some very pro-choice people who say that a woman she be allowed to have an abortion at ANY point during her pregnancy, including the ninth month.

That, to me, is murder. By then, the child can live outside the mother in the majority of cases, it can feel pain, it can hear, and see, and breathe. I'm sorry, but if you haven't decided by a certain time that you don't want to have a baby, you can't just decide the day before you're due that you don't want the child. Fine, give it up for adoption, because at that point, abortion becomes murder.

Just my humble opinions. And if you're going to disagree with anything (which please, feel free to), I ask that you don't use religion as your standpoint. While I respect everyone's right to their religious beliefs, your religion won't sway me in the least. I guarantee it.

Comments

[wishonpinkstars.livejournal.com]

I totally, 1000% agree with you.
I think you're reasons for it are completely right. But I am against partial birth abortions as well. It is murder. Because at 9 months, if you can go thru with an abortion you're a murderer. You should have decided you didn't want it from the begining.
I totally agree with you

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

Right on :)

[nypdbosco.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with you on everything, and you've started to sway my opinion on matter A. However I've known too many sexually active females who've used abortion as their means of "safe sex". I think there should be some kind of limit or something...maybe females who have too many "whoops, it was an accident" abortions should...I don't know...have certain parts of their anatomy reconstructed or something :)

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

At the very least they should be -forced- to use birth control. :)

[tylergrrls.livejournal.com]

maybe females who have too many "whoops, it was an accident" abortions should...I don't know...have certain parts of their anatomy reconstructed or something :)

Can we lock them in rooms and make them practice putting condoms on bananas for like, 8 hours a day?

You'd think it wouldn't be that hard to learn...

[huntersglenn.livejournal.com]

Some of the biggest complaints against the 'partial-birth abortion' law were OB-gyns who had diagnosed serious deformities in the third trimester and the pregnancies were terminated in that way. Under the ban, the procedure couldn't be performed at all, no matter what the condition of the fetus was at the time. And, at the height of the discussion about the ban, I remember reading that the majority of the 'partial-birth' abortions were done for medical reasons and weren't being asked for by women who just didn't want to be pregnant.

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

Ok, just to clarify, when you said that the procedure "couldn't be performed at all, no matter what the condition of the fetus was at the time"...does that mean that even if the baby had actually died or was going to die, the procedure still wasn't allowed?

[huntersglenn.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the wording isn't clear on just what is acceptable and what is not, and that's what was worrying the OB-gyns. From one standpoint, it could read as if it was totally banned, no matter what. Some of the ban proponents said that that wasn't true, but they didn't try to change the wording, either. So, basically, the doctors were left with the possibility of facing charges if they did that procedure in legitimate cases (one case involved where the spinal cord was fully exposed at the base of the skull, or something like that)

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

Ok, thank you for clarifying. I understand what you're saying now.

[monack.livejournal.com]

I am incredibly pro-choice. My feelings are that whatever my personal feelings are regarding abortion, I don't have a right to push that belief onto others.

As I get older, I become more and more "pro-life" in my beliefs, but pro-choice in my feelings -- does that make sense?

I agree with you on partial-birth abortions -- because I agree -- if the baby can live outside of the mother's womb is where the line is drawn for me.

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

Yes, that absolutely makes sense to me, Mona. And honestly, as much as I don't want kids...I'm not sure I could have an abortion myself if I was in that position, so I get that.

[huntersglenn.livejournal.com]

The problem though, is with modern medical technology, preemies born at earlier and earlier stages of the pregnancy CAN surive outside of the womb. So then you have to get into deciding what it means to 'live outside the womb' -- the baby breathing on its own? I couldn't breathe on my own when I was born and I was a full-term baby. Granted, I didn't have to be intubated, but I was put in some sort of a machine that had forced air in it in order to help me breathe.

[tylergrrls.livejournal.com]

I am violently pro-choice and just as violently anti-abortion.

Most people don't understand that... but the fact that I hate the idea of abortion and don't have a lot of respect for people who use it as retroactive birth control... my opinion on the matter is NOT important enough to be gospel law. Every woman should be able to chose what happens to her body.

The problem with the "Partial Birth Abortion" ban is that it isn't just banning so-called partial birth abortions. The language in the actual law is fuzzy enough to include earlier births where the baby could not survive outside the womb, and doesn't take into account whether the baby is going to survive or not.

But while both of those things disturb me, what disturbs me most is that there is NO allowances for the life and health of the mother. Even if the woman is about to die, it is STILL illegal to preform the abortion, which makes a woman's life worth less than a fetus.

And that just really bothers me. And that is probably why it is being found unconstitutional. It's the 21st century, and they passed a law taking away a woman's right to life, not just choice.

-Bree

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

You know, I think you've just swayed my opinion somewhat. If we're talking about a matter of life or death (the mother's) rather than a choice that's much later in a pregnancy, I think I'm going to have to agree with you.

[tylergrrls.livejournal.com]

It's not something that they've made a big deal about... and I don't think most people know the scary details of the law unless they've been following the whole thing very, very closely.

If some woman can't decide before 7 months is up whether or not she wants to be pregnant... well, I don't think she should get to kill a baby that could live outside the womb. But if the baby is dying or deformed, or even if it's just going to kill her to have it... well, that's a whole different story.

[xtremeroswellia.livejournal.com]

Yes, it definitely is. I agree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[magelette.livejournal.com]

Amen on the choice thing, Angie. Really really Amen. It's not the government's right to tell me what God to believe in, who I should love, or whether or not I should have my child.

But, like Bree, I think I am anti-abortion on a personal standpoint. I don't know if I could do it. My birth mom could've just as easily done it to me, so it's always hit me kinda hard. I feel like I owe her one for having the guts to give birth to me at 16. And when I finally met her, I thanked her for it. A couple times.

Very nice, well thought-out, and non-rabid argument. :)

[tylergrrls.livejournal.com]

I, too, am pro-choice but anti-abortion. I guess I am now more than ever, since I'm personally growing a baby and my sister just had one. I wouldn't dream of taking away anyone's right to choose what to do about an unwanted pregnancy, but I hate that it has to be a decision anyone should have to make.

The retroactive birth control thing irritates me, because I personally know a woman who's gone that route several times. It just seems to me that something so "traumatic" (her word, not mine) as undergoing an abortion would make her more careful.

As for late-term abortions, I think there should definitely be a medical reason for those. I mean, if you're ambivalent about whether you want to have a baby, fine. But if you can't make up your mind until the third trimester, then you need to work on your procrastination issues. Because I can personally vouch for the fact that being pregnant is like existing in dog years; one month feels like seven, dude. It takes foreeeeeeeever.

As for a baby being able to live on its own, you might be surprised how early that can happen, if you're not discounting medical intervention. My friend Kara is a nurse in a neonatal intensive care unit. The last time I went to visit her at work, one of her patients was a baby who'd been delivered at 27 weeks of gestation. He weighed 520 grams - just a little over one pound. His prognosis wasn't good, and you could see straight through his skin, it was so thin. But he was alive. Sort of.

Now I'm depressed. ::snork:: I'm almost eight months pregnant and extremely hormonal. I have no business getting involved in this discussion, do I?

Donna :)